Fact-Checking the Obama-Clinton Debate

WASHINGTON — Here is a brief look at the facts in some of the confrontations that Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had in their debate Thursday night in Austin, Texas.

IMMIGRATION

Clinton and Obama both claimed to have played a role in comprehensive immigration reform legislation in the Senate.

"I signed onto the first comprehensive bill back in 2004," Clinton said. "I've been advocating for it: tougher, more secure borders, of course, but let's do it the right way, cracking down on employers, especially once we get to comprehensive immigration reform, who exploit undocumented workers and drive down wages for everyone else."

Obama said he had worked on immigration reform "extensively" and two years ago was "one of the group of senators that helped move (comprehensive reform legislation) through the Senate," only to see it die in the House.

The facts: Both accurately described their positions, but Clinton more modestly. She was an advocate of comprehensive reforms as early as 2001, her first year in the Senate.

HEALTH CARE

The biggest clash of the evening came over their differing approaches to providing health care to the more than 50 million Americans without health insurance. Clinton repeated her claim that Obama's plan falls short of universal health care because it would not cover all Americans.

"When I proposed a universal health care plan ... we took a big risk, because we know it's politically controversial to say we're going to cover everyone," Clinton said. "And you chose not to do that. You chose to put forth a health care plan that will leave out at least 15 million people. That's a big difference."

Obama responded by saying that "the notion that I am leaving 15 million people out somehow implies that we are different in our goals of providing coverage to all Americans, and that is simply not true." He added, "We think that there's going to be a different way of getting there."

The facts: The health care plans put forth by both candidates are similar, but Clinton's health care plan includes a mandate for individuals to get insurance, while Obama's plan only mandates that children have it. Obama has shown reluctance to force people to buy health insurance. Experts consulted by FactCheck.org estimate that between 15 million and 26 million would not opt for insurance under Obama's plan.

PLAGIARISM

Earlier his week, the Clinton campaign charged that Obama had plagiarized the speeches of his friend and supporter, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick. And Clinton repeated the charge Thursday night, saying, "I think that if your candidacy is going to be about words, then they should be your own words. That's, I think, a very simple proposition. And, you know, lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in, it's change you can Xerox."

"Come on," Obama replied, explaining that Patrick is the national co-chairman of his campaign and had given him permission to use phrases from his speeches. "The notion that I had plagiarized from somebody who was one of my national co-chairs who gave me the line and suggested that I use it, I think, is silly, and, you know, this is where we start getting into silly season, and I think people start getting discouraged about it."

The facts: In a speech in Wisconsin last Saturday, Obama used phrases nearly identical to those once used by Patrick, making the point that words matter. Obama did not credit Patrick for the phrases until after he was challenged by the Clinton campaign. Politicians frequently borrow rhetoric from each other.

U.S. - CUBA RELATIONS

CNN debate moderator Campbell Brown suggested that Obama had "backtracked" in his position on normalization of U.S. relations with Cuba when he spoke about normalization occurring in steps rather than quickly with the departure of Fidel Castro as dictator of Cuba.

Obama did not specifically address Brown's comment, but said that he supported "the eventual normalization" of U.S. relations with Cuba. "Our goal has to be ultimately normalization, but that's going to happen in steps," he said, including the improvements in "the political rights and personal freedoms that are so important to the people of Cuba."

The facts: In a 2004 campaign questionnaire, Obama stated: "I believe that normalization of relations with Cuba would help the oppressed and poverty-stricken Cuban people while setting the stage for a more democratic government once Castro inevitably leaves the scene."

Obama repeated the position he had stated in earlier debates, that he would meet with other foreign leaders, including Castro's successor, Raul Castro, without preconditions." But this time, he also agreed with Clinton that "there has to be preparation" before such a meeting.

Clinton differed in that she said of Raul Castro: "I would not meet with him until there was evidence that change was happening, because I think it's important that they demonstrate clearly that they are committed to change the direction. Then I think, you know, something like diplomatic encounters and negotiations over specifics could take place."

GOVERNMENT SECRECY

Obama accused Clinton of working in secrecy when she spearheaded a health care reform task force when her husband was in the White House. "I'm going to do things differently," he said. "We can have great plans, but if we don't change how the politics is working in Washington, then neither of our plans are going to happen."

Clinton did not respond directly to the accusation:

The facts: Public interest groups had to go to court to get records of the health care task force, which operated at the cabinet level in Bill Clinton's administration.

COMMANDER IN CHIEF

Clinton, when asked whether Obama is qualified to be commander-in-chief, turned the question around to cite her own qualifications. "I've served on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and I have worked as one of the leaders in the Congress on behalf of homeland security in the very difficult challenges we face," she said.

Obama suggested Clinton's vote in favor of the war in Iraq calls her leadership into question, in contrast to himself. "On what I believe was the single most important foreign policy decision of this generation, whether or not to go to war in Iraq, I believe I showed the judgment of a commander in chief, and I think that Senator Clinton was wrong in her judgments on that," he said.

The facts: The question of whether someone is qualified to be commander-in-chief is a judgment for each voter to make. Clinton has been an influential member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and has taken a special interest in homeland security since the Sept. 11 attacks on her home state. Obama, alone among the major presidential candidates in both political parties this year, opposed the war in Iraq before Congress voted to authorize military action.