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U.S. attorney responds to federal ruling on border agents
While members of Congress — including Sen. John Cornyn of Texas — expressed disappointment in a federal ruling that upheld most of the convictions against two former Border Patrol agents, the prosecutor in the case praised the decision.
The agents — Jose Alonso Compean and Ignacio Ramos — are serving 12 and 11 years in prison, respectively for shooting a Mexican drug dealer and trying to cover it up.
The case has become a cause celebre on talk radio shows and among groups that advocate tougher border controls. Supporters say that the former agents were wrongly convicted for protecting the United States against a criminal intruder who was in the United States illegally.
The prosecutor in the case — U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton of the Western District of Texas — said he was “pleased” with the federal ruling.
“By affirming the convictions of the most serious charges against Mr. Compean and Mr. Ramos, the court has validated what this office has said all along - this prosecution was about the rule of law, plain and simple,” Sutton said, in a statement.
He also had some words for lawmakers and others rallying for Compean and Ramos.
He asked them to “re-evaluate their positions in light of the court record.”
“Those who understand the record and the evidence introduced at trial will realize that the actions of Compean and Ramos in shooting an unarmed and fleeing suspect were serious crimes which had to be prosecuted in order to maintain the rule of law,” Sutton said.
Comments
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By Bob
July 29, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
I hope our President has the good sense to pardon both of these men. Crossing the border illegally needs to be made as dangerous as it possibly can.
By JeremiahWright
July 29, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Disgusting. I’m so tired of illegals getting away with everything in this country. Kick the criminals out you cowardly politicians!
By william gray
July 29, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Another nail in the coffin of “The United States”. We’re going under and there’s no one to pull us out. All good things must come to an end.
By djbrown
July 29, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
I agree with Bob! Something has to deter them. Make it life threatening and maybe they will think twice before breaking the law and coming into the country illegally. Our politicians sure aren’t doing anything about it!
By pedro
July 29, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
BUY MEXICO Make it the 51st state, make everyone learn english down there. Then there is no need for Border Patrol or INS or Immigration agents and that would save millions. Make them pay for having their babies and then people wont have anything to argue about.
Que bueno?
By Cheryl
July 29, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
I think these two border patrol agents are heros,not criminals. It is discgusting the way the Bush administration has spit on the Constitution and protected the criminals for the sake of votes. In my book, the best way to protect the sovereignty of our borders is to place sharp shooters(with ARMED weapons) about every 100 yards all along the border.
By FedUp
July 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
ATTN: U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
If you are so hell bent on “upholding the law” tell us why illegals are still coming across the border, why the Mayors of these “sanctuary cities” are not prosecuted and tell us please why this sob that was shot made yet another drug run while YOU used him as a federal witness against two US citizens?
Just what the hell is wrong with these people who are allegedly “in charge?”
Pray tell where is the “witness” now I wonder? How many drug runs has he completed since the trial U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton? Do you think “We The People” are stupid or what U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton?
Just where do these self appointed smart mouths come from? Can you spell pompous a*s?
CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER NOW U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
By FedUp
July 29, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
ATTN: U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
If you are so hell bent on “upholding the law” tell us why illegals are still coming across the border, why the Mayors of these “sanctuary cities” are not prosecuted and tell us please why this sob that was shot made yet another drug run while YOU used him as a federal witness against two US citizens?
Just what the hell is wrong with these people who are allegedly “in charge?”
Pray tell where is the “witness” now I wonder? How many drug runs has he completed since the trial U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton? Do you think “We The People” are stupid or what U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton? Ok so the border patrol was wrong in this regard and they have been sentenced harshly in the opinion of many. 11 and 12 years? And who pays? “We The People” that’s who and NOT you U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
If you are so hell bent on “upholding the law” tell us why illegals are still coming across the border, why the Mayors of these “sanctuary cities” are not prosecuted and tell us please why this sob that was shot made yet another drug run while YOU used him as a federal witness against two US citizens?
Just what the hell is wrong with these people who are allegedly “in charge?”
Pray tell where is the “witness” now I wonder? How many drug runs has he completed since the trial U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton? Do you think “We The People” are stupid or what U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton?
Just where do these self appointed smart mouths come from? Can you spell pompous a*s?
CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER NOW U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
Just where do these self appointed smart mouths come from? Can you spell pompous a*s?
ATTN: U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton; CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER NOW
By FedUp
July 29, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
ATTN: U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
If you are so hell bent on “upholding the law” tell us why illegals are still coming across the border, why the Mayors of these “sanctuary cities” are not prosecuted and tell us please why this sob that was shot made yet another drug run while YOU used him as a federal witness against two US citizens?
Just what the hell is wrong with these people who are allegedly “in charge?”
Pray tell where is the “witness” now I wonder? How many drug runs has he completed since the trial U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton? Do you think “We The People” are stupid or what U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton? Ok so the border patrol was wrong in this regard and they have been sentenced harshly in the opinion of many. 11 and 12 years? And who pays? “We The People” that’s who and NOT you U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
If you are so hell bent on “upholding the law” tell us why illegals are still coming across the border, why the Mayors of these “sanctuary cities” are not prosecuted and tell us please why this sob that was shot made yet another drug run while YOU used him as a federal witness against two US citizens?
Just what the hell is wrong with these people who are allegedly “in charge?”
Pray tell where is the “witness” now I wonder? How many drug runs has he completed since the trial U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton? Do you think “We The People” are stupid or what U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton?
Just where do these self appointed smart mouths come from? Can you spell pompous a*s?
CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER NOW U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton
Just where do these self appointed smart mouths come from? Can you spell pompous a*s?
ATTN: U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton; CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER NOW
By Geo in Calif
July 29, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
The way that I look at it, they should stay in jail. As bad as this may sound, it is setting an example for the Mexicans that even legal Mexicans in the US do not get any special treatment. It’s actually a good thing that the US did not reverse the decision. Use them to set an example. Mexicans are not wanted and all bad ones…legal or illegal…will be treated the same. Do the crime…do the time. Period.
By Geo in California
July 29, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
The way that I look at it, they should stay in jail. As bad as this may sound, it is setting an example for the Mexicans that even legal Mexicans in the US do not get any special treatment. It’s actually a good thing that the US did not reverse the decision. Use them to set an example. Mexicans are not wanted and all bad ones…legal or illegal…will be treated the same. Do the crime…do the time. Period.
By Bill in MI
July 29, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this
What does he know about law, this guy (along with other illegals) shouldn’t have been here to begin with. The boarder patrol is highly under rated and under paid and often used as tools of politicians. Sutton’s tune would change if this guy had been selling drugs to his kids. What about enforcing laws that keep illegals out??? These boarder patrol guys are hero’s. I hope some slick lawyer finds a way for these guys kids to sue the crap out Sutton….the guy it trash
By Maggs
July 29, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
I think the 5th District Court of Appeals’ decision is criminal. From what they said the day of the hearing in December, 2007 and what the outcome was is 2 totally different responses.
Johnny Sutton needs to be in jail instead of Ramos and Compean.
I hope you will be happy to hear that the “criminal” will be receiving 5 million US dollars for his suit against the border patrol. Are you happy your tax dollars are being given to the drug runner? It is my understanding that drug runner will be sentenced next Wednesday by the same judge that sentenced Ramos and Compean. I bet she doesn’t give him 11-12 years. He probably will get a slap on the wrist.
The American people should be disgusted at this miscarriage of justice to our law enforcement.
There is something very corrupt going on with this case.
By Michael
July 29, 2008 6:54 PM | Link to this
These guys should get pardons and big thank you checks!
By Sabotian
July 29, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
It is a shame that these guys are in prison for doing their job the right way. I think that the reason these two border agents are going to stay in jail is that the powers that be have no interest in stopping the flow of illicit drugs into the US. This is the government’s way of saying “How dare you stop our drugs without authorization.” They may do a sacrificial bust of a shipping container or some guys car but still the drugs somehow manage to get through. Think about it. If all the drugs disappeared tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers would be out of a job. Many police officers, correction officers, not to mention the personnel of industries that service jails and prisons would be unemployed. Why is it so easy to go to prison for a long time over even minor drug infractions? Because, it is all business. A company can turn a tidy profit by warehousing people. The war on drugs cannot be won because upper and middle management drug distributors are in collusion with our government. They have been since the 1960s.
The powers that be also have no interest in stopping the flow of illegals. Many of which refuse to learn to speak English. I do not hate Mexicans but it says a whole lot if 10% of a countrys population relocates. Here the problem. Mexico is not a poor country. It is just mismanaged. The illegals are just quitters that will not fight the battle to sort out their social problems. We are on our way to becoming a 3rd tier country. It will have several languages, a modest economy, and no real power. This country is going down.
By Jose Ogaku
July 29, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this
Many commentators in this blog expressed happiness like a orgasm when they seeing the suffering of the Latino community ……. but their small brains not understand that the money leave with they !!!!thousands of undocumented Hispanics are leaving that is ok!! but the payments of mortgages and credit cards or car loans is stoped … and this affect seriously our economy ….. this is a little example .
jose is a friend, he is undocumented worker he bought a house in 2002, the value house was $ 120,000 …… and he refinancing in 2006. Jose signed a loan for $ 220,000 Jose put $ 100,000 in his pocket .
Jose will going to Mexico in December that does not support this situation more ……. One foreclosed more in December!! and one car returned to the agency …. Jose cant pay $ 20,000 in credit card debt…. Jose will take more than $ 150,000. dollars in your pocket, his truck , his TV plasma 40” ,his washing and dryer machine , his refrigerator and believe me .Jose is very happy!
Many Americans are closing their businesses!!! That more later will be reflected in losses of employees …….. Like it us or not like it us the losing of the Latino economy that affects us greatly in our pockets
By me
July 29, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
The crazy thing is that if I were illegally sneaking into another country I would expect to be shot. But not here! Just the opposite is true! We “shoot” the law-abiding citizens here! Seriously, I wish that someone would explain why we can’t do something about a situation that most Americans want changed.
By dbm
July 29, 2008 9:51 PM | Link to this
Criminalizing drugs forces drug users and providers outside the law and creates more problems than it solves. It also introduces force into a matter that should not be settled by force.
It was a mistake ever to pass laws restricting immigration. It was a mistake primarily because it violates our American principles of liberty and opportunity for all. It was a mistake also because such laws create practical problems, as has happened more and more with immigration. Forcing immigrants into illegal limbo makes a lot of the problems associated with immigration worse. The best thing we as a country can do is to repeal all laws limiting immigration and to stop prosecuting people for violating them.
It is the two agents who shot a fleeing unarmed suspect who spat on the Constitution and the law.
By Ich bin ein Beginner
July 29, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this
Two words: Land mines.
By Popeye
July 29, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
A GROSS miscarriage of justice. I doubt the Village Idiot in the White House will even CONSIDER a pardon or commutation of sentence. After all, these guys don’t have the pull that Scooter Libby did! Crooks and liars like him are the only ones the VI cares about, trust me. The perp in this case is now in Federal prison for running drugs while he TESTIFIED against the agents! Believe THAT? What a efed up country we have. Thanks George, U idiot! He not only has destroyed the Repbulican Party but the country as well. Maybe Hussein Obama will do the same thing to the Democrap Party and maybe this country can be saved.
By Popeye
July 29, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
A GROSS miscarriage of justice. I doubt the Village Idiot in the White House will even CONSIDER a pardon or commutation of sentence. After all, these guys don’t have the pull that Scooter Libby did! Crooks and liars like him are the only ones the VI cares about, trust me. The perp in this case is now in Federal prison for running drugs while he TESTIFIED against the agents! Believe THAT? What a efed up country we have. Thanks George, U idiot! He not only has destroyed the Republican Party but the country as well. Maybe Hussein Obama will do the same thing to the Democrap Party and maybe this country can be saved.
By L1M89
July 30, 2008 1:38 AM | Link to this
[It is the two agents who shot a fleeing unarmed suspect who spat on the Constitution and the law.] That extremely simpleminded, new age leftist sentiment, is hardly ever heard outside of the cozy little soundproofed rubbercells@happydale.nuts
[our American principles of liberty and opportunity for all] Those noble principals are there for American Citizens, not for the opportunity for all corrupt 3rd world despots to unload their societal problems on US.
Only a loony leftist would promote the use of Illegal Aliens as economic slaves & call it a constitutional right. That leftists want our USA to declare a global war against poverty is further evidence that Acute DemocRats Dementia is reaching epidemic levels, theyre all nuts.
Top psychiatrist concludes liberals clinically nuts
Link - http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56494
[Eminent psychiatrist makes case ideology is mental disorder
WASHINGTON Just when liberals thought it was safe to start identifying themselves as such, an acclaimed, veteran psychiatrist is making the case that the ideology motivating them is actually a mental disorder.
“Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded,” says Dr. Lyle Rossiter, author of the new book, “The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness.” “Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave.”
While political activists on the other side of the spectrum have made similar observations, Rossiter boasts professional credentials and a life virtually free of activism and links to “the vast right-wing conspiracy.”
For more than 35 years he has diagnosed and treated more than 1,500 patients as a board-certified clinical psychiatrist and examined more than 2,700 civil and criminal cases as a board-certified forensic psychiatrist. He received his medical and psychiatric training at the University of Chicago.
Rossiter says the kind of liberalism being displayed by the two major candidates for the Democratic Party presidential nomination can only be understood as a psychological disorder.] (to be continued)
(continued; Top psychiatrist concludes liberals clinically nuts)
[”A social scientist who understands human nature will not dismiss the vital roles of free choice, voluntary cooperation and moral integrity as liberals do,” he says. “A political leader who understands human nature will not ignore individual differences in talent, drive, personal appeal and work ethic, and then try to impose economic and social equality on the population as liberals do. And a legislator who understands human nature will not create an environment of rules which over-regulates and over-taxes the nation’s citizens, corrupts their character and reduces them to wards of the state as liberals do.”
Dr. Rossiter says the liberal agenda preys on weakness and feelings of inferiority in the population by:
“The roots of liberalism and its associated madness can be clearly identified by understanding how children develop from infancy to adulthood and how distorted development produces the irrational beliefs of the liberal mind,” he says. “When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives, the neurosis of the liberal mind becomes painfully obvious.”]
Get help soon, perhaps theres still time.
By A bad cop is a bad cop
July 30, 2008 5:31 AM | Link to this
Personally, I have a real problem with cops that think they are above the law and the end justifies the means for whatever they want to do. Why don’t you ask Kathryn Johnston, that 92 year old Atlanta lady who was murdered in her own home by cops who lied to obtain a search warrant, who planted drugs to make her look guilty afterward and attempted to tamper with witnesses how she feels about bad cops? A bad cop is a bad cop and there are too many bad cops in this country.
By L1M89
July 30, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this
[Personally, I have a real problem with cops that think they are above the law and the end justifies the means for whatever they want to do.]
Ramos & Compean are good cops whove been wrongly accused then persecuted in a Kangaroo Court. Clearly president Bush & his pet boy lying Johnny Sutton that think they are above the law and the end justifies the means for whatever they wanted to do.
All of the evidence in the case is rapidly growing to overwhelming proportions against our FedGovs persecution of our Border Agents, Ramos & Compean. While its most regrettable whenever law enforcement officers step out of line, Ramos & Compean only were doing their jobs. Its extremely regrettable that a handful of dimbulbs refuse to carefully study this case & read the evidence that exposes the kangaroo court the Border Agents were subjected to.
Something is rotten in this case & the source of the odious decay resides in the white House & both Houses of Congress. Wheres the outrage from our DemocRat controlled congress? Are they in on this travesty of justice & theyre active in the cover-up? Before anyone again calls Ramos & Compean bad cops they should fully comprehend all of the details in how they were railroaded.
“Glenn Beck: Ramos & Compean - The Whole Story”
[‘GLENN: These are the two border agents that were thrown in jail for what it looked like shooting somebody in the back or in the butt as they were running away, just this poor helpless victim and then trying to cover it up. That’s what it looks like. That’s what the government would like to have you believe. That is not the case.
We go to Tara Setmayer who has been on this case now for how long, Tara? Two years?
SETMAYER: Almost two years, yeah.
GLENN: And you and your illustrious boss in Washington have been on this case trying to set this right and so far you’re beating your head against the wall. Let’s start with the story, and if we could tell the story here in a five minute period here as much as you can, tell everybody the history of this case.’]
Read the rest of the story - link: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/ article/196/13098/
By George
July 30, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Patriotic Americans need to make a public stand for these guys. We should protest the white house.
By dbm
July 31, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this
To L1M89:
I am not a liberal.
I don’t know how many liberals fit your description but the ones that do are either sick or very immature.
The facts of the Ramos/Compean case seem to be more complicated than they looked at first. However, it is a shame that so many people seize on this case as an excuse for immigrant bashing.
All people are morally entitled to liberty, including lack of restraints on opportunity, not just American citizens.
It is the illegal limbo into which many immigrants are forced that makes them economic slaves. If they were here legally they could not be enslaved.
The best way to implement free choice, voluntary cooperation and moral integrity is to eliminate arbitrary, unjust restrictions such as current immigration laws.
By eric
August 1, 2008 12:56 AM | Link to this
Sickening Im so tired of dishonest receiving away with everything in this country. Just kill the criminals out you cowardly politicians. Border line is very important.
Eric http://www.treatmentcenters.org/georgia
By Paul
August 1, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this
I totally disagree with DBM’s outlook. Allowing anyone and everyone into the USA means population explosion, degradation of our current cultural institutions, etc. Hey, let’s be like India: poor, overcrowded, feudal,…
Please, let’s demand that China accept 300 million immigrants from India….or Zimbabwe take 100 million immigrants from Korea…or Mexico take 20 million immigrants from Liberia. You would not dream of that, since you regard those nations and peoples as sovereign.
Look, are we an illegitimate people? Are we bad and everyone else good? Is this our land, or is it the world’s lifeboat?
Again, some people take this self-examination of America’ sins beyond the limit, then decide we should surrender.
By L1M89
August 1, 2008 2:06 AM | Link to this
[Look, are we an illegitimate people? Are we bad and everyone else good? Is this our land, or is it the worlds lifeboat? Again, some people take this self-examination of America; sins beyond the limit, then decide we should surrender.] Well stated Paul.
Dbm said:
[I am not a liberal.]
OK for now.
[The facts of the Ramos/Compean case seem to be more complicated than they looked at first.]
Whats so complicated? The chief persecutor, lying Johnny Sutton railroaded the agents with the help of a corrupt judge in a kangaroo court using witnesses who committed perjury.
[However, it is a shame that so many people seize on this case as an excuse for immigrant bashing.]
Who has been bashing Immigrants in this blog? If youre going to make such wild assertions please offer valid substantiation, not anecdotes.
[All people are morally entitled to liberty, including lack of restraints on opportunity, not just American citizens.]
This is our USA where American citizens are granted, by God, the protections of our US Constitution. To allow Illegal Aliens to act as citizens will bring anarchy & is a vile insult to those whove Immigrated to our welcoming USA. BTW our USA has the most liberal Immigration Laws in the world.
[It is the illegal limbo into which many immigrants are forced that makes them economic slaves. If they were here legally they could not be enslaved.]
If theyre here legally theyre Immigrants. Liberals always try to confuse the issue by calling Illegals undocumented Immigrants. Your words sound as though they were muttered by a liberal moonbat, but you say youre not a lib, hmm.
The best way to implement free choice, voluntary cooperation and moral integrity is to eliminate arbitrary, unjust restrictions such as current immigration laws.]
For our USA to unilaterally do away with our current immigration laws will encourage every despotic leader from all corrupt 3rd world nations to transport their societal problems & dump them at our formerly sovereign borders. That grossly ill-conceived plan would lead directly to our countrys financial ruin & only a dimbulb liberal moonbat would propose such a goofy notion.
But you say youre not a lib, hmm. Perhaps you should look at youre proposals & then look long & hard at yourself in a clean mirror, my guess is youll see the reflection of a warm n fuzzy lib.
By dbm
August 3, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
To L1M89:
In the very first post here, Bob says “Crossing the border illegally needs to be made as dangerous as it possibly can.” This and similar bloodthirsty comments in other posts sound like immigrant bashing to me.
We should abolish welfare, food stamps, etc. Although we should do this regardless of immigration issues, one benefit is that we wouldn’t have to worry about being bankrupted if undesirables were dumped here. They would have to work, find private charity, or starve. Still think I’m a liberal? Do you understand the difference between a liberal and a libertarian?
By dbm
August 3, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this
To Paul:
In the unlikely event that any of those countries ask my advice, I would tell them to let anyone immigrate who wants to. If I were a citizen of one of those countries, I might feel more entitled to bring the subject up, but I might not think it was safe.
By L1M89
August 3, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this
[Do you understand the difference between a liberal and a libertarian?]
Yea & if it sounds like a lib moonbat & lacks comprehension like a lib moonbat, most likely its a lib moonbat, regardless of its protestations. You still dont comprehend the numerous differences between Immigrants & invading Illegal Aliens. Somebody help this nice person please. Anybody?
This link may help a little, good luck dbm. http://reading.uoregon.edu/comp/
Comprehension: The complex cognitive process involving the intentional interaction between reader and text to convey meaning.
[This and similar bloodthirsty comments in other posts sound like immigrant bashing to me.]
But it aint, get over it. Immigrant, Illegal Alien, theyre not interchangeable, learn to differentiate & comprehend. You confuse the two, just like a dimbulb lib moonbat, hmm. Oh yea, you said youre a libertarian not a liberal, hmm. Anybody?
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
[Still think Im a liberal? Do you understand the difference between a liberal and a libertarian?]
Like most folks I thought that I did. Then the mistake was made of doing a web-search to determine the official definition/designation of Liberalism & Libertarianism & the lines between the two seemed to blur then merge. Was that a little confusing? Yep, you betcha & it seems that Liberals & Libertarians argue over their official doctrinaire, further clouding the issue.
Libertarianism: The Oxymoronic Faith, by Steve Farrell
link - http://centerformoralliberalism.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/libertarianism-the-oxymoronic-faith-by-steve-farrell/ Missing the Mark With Religion, Part 2
Essay one addressed Modern Liberalism as the religion, albeit the false religion, that it is. Next, enter stage right, Libertarianism.
[Libertarianism, or at least that mainstream brand of Libertarianism which zealously waves that oxymoronic political banner Political Conservative, Social Liberal, has its own pint-sized political party, but more importantly the faith of Libertarianism has a Titanic-sized impact upon the religious inclinations of the leadership ranks of the Republican Party, and upon many of the prestigious think-tanks which preach republicans their gospel.
Libertarianisms central claim to fame from a political standpoint is that it represents an anti-statist, limited government answer to the new religion of Modern Liberalism, in that it sets out to contract the reach of the state. Contract the size of the state, they say, and all private interests are benefitedreligion included. Amen.
But, then, faith without works is dead, isnt it? And needless to say, in politics, lively, pretty promises are all too often found dead on arrival, abandoned to the hungry and ugly dogs of fine print and Libertarianisms thesis on religion in public life is where all the fine print ugliness begins]
To be continued; namely the libertarian party)
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
(continued;)
Namely, the Libertarian Party contends that:
[1. One must not legislate morality.
2. Church and State must be strictly separated.
3. Government must not aid, nor attack religion. (1)
Admittedly, for most, this trio sounds about right. But that is only because this bold claim as regards the proper role of religion and morality in public life has been repeated loud enough, often enough, and long enough in the public classrooms and public facilities, on the air and in print, at political conventions and in common conversations, that it has come to have a ring of truth about it when truth is what it lacks the most.
Consider: this party platform stand, coming out of right field from the most doctrinaire, the most lets return to the Founders, the most anti-statist, anti-big government party in the business, is lifted verbatim not out of the US Constitution as one might suppose nor out of the philosophy of Americas Founders as Libertarians often allege but right out of the text of the Warren Burger Courts Lemon Test; that very point of reference used to justify nearly every government and private sector attack on religious freedom in the past thirty-three years! That is troublesome, isnt it? It should be.]
(continued; the 1971 lemon test)
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
(continued;)
The 1971 Lemon Test ruled:
1. All laws or statutes must have a secular legislative purpose.
2. Such laws or statutes must not foster an excessive government entanglement with religion.
3. The principle or primary effect, of such laws or statutes, must neither advance nor inhibit religion. (2)
*We must ask the honest Libertarian, *Whats the difference between the Libertarian stand and the modern liberal, liberty destroying stand of the Warren Burger Court? And the honest answer can only be There is none!
And so, if we were to call a spade a spade, we would be compelled to say that Libertarianisms three-point stand on religion and Liberalisms three-pronged Lemon Test are indistinguishable, one and the same, twin sisters, partners in crime. Making Libertarians central religious dogma of contracting the reach of the state so that religion might prosper, at best, suspect or misguidedat worst, something that has the appearance of locking hands with Liberalism as if it had a hidden goal to persuade old school capitalists of the enlightened self-interest camp to be baptized into the new progressive camp where dollar signs in ones eyes are deemed compatible with vacancy signs in ones soul.]
The Soulless Capitalist more - http://centerformoralliberalism.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/libertarianism-the-oxymoronic-faith-by-steve-farrell/
(To be continued, cut to ending chapters; undermining the foundations)
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
(continued;)
Undermining the Foundation of Our Unalienable Rights
[There are other problems with Libertarianisms three pronged Secularism that every American ought to consider.
The whole idea of secular law strikes at the foundation of American government, which government was the first government on earth that acknowledged and declared that the sole legitimate function of this government, or any government is to secure unalienable rights, of which all men are endowed by their Creator. (3)
When the Founders accepted the idea that certain rights are unalienable, they were saying, in effect, There is a source of law which exceeds the wisdom of man, that source is God, and to that source all manmade organizations, including representative governments, must humbly bow. One cannot usurp such a right, or such a law, for it is eternal.
John Locke, in his 1690 Second Treatise on Government, quoting from Hooker, explained:
Every ordinary citizen during the Founding era understood this elementary school, home school taught truth. They had a source document, the Bible, and inspired reason (what Jefferson described as the voice of God within) to define what their fixed rights were; and nobody, but nobody had better usurp those fixed rights! Libertarianisms secular stand, however, denies the right for Americans to look to God and His revelations as the source of their law and their rights, in the classroom, in the courthouse, and in the halls of Congress.]
(continued; where then shall we look?)
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
(continued;)
*Where, Then, Shall We Look? *
[Which obliges us to ask, to what source, then, shall the children of God look for their laws and their rights under Libertarian rule? Shall they look to the decree of a king? To the verdict of a court? To the vote of a congress? To the theory of a grant-driven scientist? To the formula of an economist? To the machination of a social engineer? To the promise of a politician? To a Time/Newsweek generated opinion poll? To a here-today-gone-tomorrow ethical value of a Humanist?
Indeed, it is to such as these that the Libertarian forces every man, including himself, to seek; for so preoccupied with his liberty and his precious purist free markets is he, that he fails to understand that both are only possible within the confines of a few good Higher Laws, laws which forever remain fixed.
Bartering Our Unalienable Rights and Our Fundamental Laws
By denying the existence of Higher Law on a few vital points, Libertarianism puts the law and our rights on the market place of ideas, as if to say, It is safe, wise and responsible for so celestial an article as freedom (4) to be bartered as a common good by master manipulators, opportunists, bullies and loudmouths who, in fact, insure there is no free market of ideas only a controlled debate; for their point of view is NOT religious, and thus their point of view must be and will be heard, while Christians are silenced.]
(to be continued; communism wins)
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
(continued;)
Communism Wins
[The result is, Libertarianism makes the law precisely what Communist Founder Karl Marx wanted it to be. There are, said Marx, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience. (5)
That new basis is, in part, Secularism. And how would Secularism come about?
Communist Party USA Founder William Z. Foster taught his followers that the grand key was to first separate religion from public life, thus making religion a private affair only. Whilst in public, the only acceptable perspective would be materialism, internationalism, and ethics, or in other words, Secularism. (6)
How very convenient. And is not the Libertarian worship of property over morality, absolute free markets over national security and sovereignty, and secularism over religion, just that materialism, internationalism, and ethics? They, no doubt, would deny it. But if they reasoned to the core, and took sides with honesty over their mountain top pride, they would have to concede true is true, and the truth hurts.
Deceiving Men Through Historical Revisionism, Enslaving Men to Their Passions, Dehumanizing Men Through Mind-altering Drugs
But there is more. Mass murdering communist, Mao Se Tung, added another ingredient to the toxic mix which would plunge America into tyranny: we will rewrite Americas history books minus the morality, minus God, minus heroes (or men of principle), he promised in summary which the Lemon Test affectively did and then we will make the religious perspective, the moral perspective, and all chances for liberty ever the more irrelevant by pushing drugs, pornography, and free sex upon Americans youths, he vowed next.]
(to be continued; why)
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
(continued)
[Why? So that the rising generations moral senses would be dulled, debilitated, destroyed, and, with it, their ability to govern themselves flushed down the toilet.
True to the Maos Marxist model, Libertarianism denies the religious heritage of our Founders, and likewise supports legalizing drugs, prostitution, homosexuality, abortion, pornography, and gambling with, it says, this end in mind: liberating man from government.
When every schoolboy Marxist understands that such things make slaves of men, raise crime rates, destroy families, and create a class of street revolutionaries (pressure from below), that in turn raises a hue and cry for government programs to control and repair the damage (pressure from above). Its called the pincer strategy.
Calling Evil Good and Good Evil
Isnt this about altering definitions? About placing upon the alter as sacred and good for liberty the very things which have always debauched and destroyed liberty? Isnt Libertarianisms liberating stand in favor of social liberalism, a defense of the very kind of liberty Edmund Burke spoke of in his famous Reflections on the Revolution in France, as an ideology which exhibits total contempt [for] all ancient institutions, resembling a madman, or else a highwayman and murderer who has broke prison upon the recovery of his natural rights [who] act[s] over again the scene of the criminals condemned to the galleys. ?]
(to be continued; such questions need be asked)
By L1M89
August 4, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
(continued;)
Such questions need be asked.
[For ultimately, this is what it means to overthrow the existing order: to make criminality and immorality a protected right under the law, and religion and virtue a public crime that is, in the words of Holy Writ, to call evil good, and good evil, to put darkness for light, and light for darkness, to put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. (7) It is what occurred in France. It is what is happening here in America thanks to liberals and libertarians this very day, this very hour.
By way of contrast, Burke noted, All nations have begun the fabric of a new government, or the reformation of an old, by establishing originally or by enforcing with greater exactness some rites or other of religion. All other people have laid the foundations of civil freedom in severer manners and a system of a more austere and masculine morality.
To overthrow the existing order is to overthrow the accumulated knowledge, traditions and patterns of history. The French Revolution is praised by every communist as the quintessential revolution for its brutal, bloody totality. Crushed were property, religion, legal traditions, social graces, you name it. Broken was the pattern of history and established was a new order under a secular constitution. All of it was done in the name of libertybut license never is liberty.
Dull minds make for good slaves; and a moral vacuum needs to be filled.
That the attending moral vacuum would then be more readily filled by Communism or anyone of her totalitarian sisters is clear, for what other faith is possessed of the vision, the determination, the endurance, and equipped with the foot soldiers to change the old moral order for a new amoral order than this one?
This is what is wrong with Libertarianism. By default, it embraces the moral code, the religion, if you will, of its chief nemesis, absolute government, or communism. In as much as it does so, it misses the mark with religion and becomes a conservative accomplice to Modern Liberalism, a veritable Trojan Horse within the Republican Party, an enemy to liberty, to the foundation of the fabric, that necessary spring of free government, revealed religion.]
dbm asked the question; Do you understand the difference between a liberal and a libertarian?
Not so much any more, still searching however the answer could be far worse than previously guessed… http://centerformoralliberalism.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/libertarianism-the-oxymoronic-faith-by-steve-farrell/
By L1M89
August 5, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
Back on topic & to The issue:
‘Border Agents: Ramos & Compean’
What the liberal whiners say:
[#1. ‘They were rogue cops, who shot an unarmed man in the butt’ #2. ‘They didn’t report the shooting, and made the crime worse by disposing of the shell casings’ #3. ‘Hey, they were convicted by a jury of their peers’ #4. ‘The only ones who believe these guys are racist talk radio hosts
Your winning, logical, reasoned arguments:
Rogue cops? Ignacio Ramos had been nominated for “Border Agent of the Year” in 2005. Joe Compean, in addition to serving his country in the border patrol, also served honorably in the Navy. There was nothing “rogue” about either one of these agents. As for shooting an “unarmed” man in the back; the only one who says he was unarmed was the drug dealer (Aldrete-Davila) himself, and the prosecutors who gave him immunity to testify. Ramos and Compean maintain to this day, that they saw something shiny in his hand as he turned and pointed toward them. Do you believe a drug cartel mule, who’d been smuggling drugs since he was 14, or two men who’d devoted their lives to protecting their country?
The fact that they didn’t report the shooting is often cited by U.S. Attorney, Johnny Sutton and repeated often in the press. However, filing a written report is NOT required, and there were 15 agents, including three supervisors on the scene by the end of the incident. It was well known to their supervisors. The disposing of the shell casings was a departmental problem…NOT a crime. A suspension or even dismissal from their positions should have been the harshest punishment they faced; not 11 & 12 YEARS in Federal Prison. No one even KNEW that the illegal alien smuggler had been hit by their fire.
Yes, a jury of peers who was told that drug smuggler Aldrete-Davila had never done such a thing before. He was simply trying to raise $2000 for surgery his mother needed, and he didn’t even know what he was delivering. The prosecution knew this was a lie, and in fact, after having been given immunity for the drug bust to testify, plus free medical care and unlimited passes across the border, he was caught not once, but TWICE more…with drug loads totaling about a ton. Knowing this, and encouraging him to testify of these lies, the prosecution was guilty of suborning purjury. The witness had NO credibility, and the jury was lied to.
It’s interesting that so many who hate the Bush Administration and everything it does, including firing eight U.S. Attorneys for political reasons, would now side with that same Bush Justice Department against two Hispanic Americans. Pasty white U.S. Attorney, Johnny Sutton, and his group of Casper the friendly ghost prosecutorial team, viciously went after two Hispanic law enforcement agents, using a gun charge in the commission of a crime statute to force mandatory 10 year federal sentences in this case…but the talk hosts who are fighting so vigorously for these Hispanic agents are somehow racist? Can you explain that to me?]
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/13366/
By dbm
August 5, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
To L1M89:
Have you ever read anything by Ayn Rand?
By dbm
August 5, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
To L1M89:
There is less difference between legal and illegal immigrants than you think.
The basic difference is that legal immigrants have been able to score a space in our arbitrary quota system, whereas illegal immigrants haven’t and thus must sidestep the system. This is a technical difference created by improper laws and not a difference in morality or in the type of people involved.
Being illegal forces illegal immigrants into other differences, but these would go away if we did the right thing and let people enter the country freely.
By L1M89
August 6, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this
[Have you ever read anything by Ayn Rand?]
She would never accept Barrack Hussein Obamas mantra of how American Citizens need to sacrifice more so aid for the worlds poor could be increased.
She also understood that man can’t exist without his body, so no rights can exist without the right to translate one’s rights into reality, to think, to work and keep the results, which means: the right of property. Therefore man has the right to defend his property from invading hordes of Illegal Aliens.
However this discussion of Ayn Rands objectivism is way off topic. Its the injustice that has been perpetrated upon former agents Ramos & Compean thats at issue in this thread. If the Border Line Blog wanted to set up a rant thread where open arguments & debates could be held & everybody could jump in, that could be entertaining.
Drifting off into personal debates regardless of the threads topic will lead to an egomaniacal hijacking of the blog & intellectual anarchy. Thats a direction that never should be allowed by us. So unless Ayn or Atlas, in between his shrugs, will help bust our former Border Agents out of prison we should stay closer to the topic at hand.
By L1M89
August 6, 2008 3:35 AM | Link to this
[The basic difference is that legal immigrants have been able to score a space in our arbitrary quota system,] Its not arbitrary, its necessary to maintain order & defend against anarchy & lawlessness. Former Border Agents Ramos & Compean were defending our USA against lawlessness yet our FedGov persecuted them in a kangaroo court.
The facts of this travesty of justice have been displayed, with substantiating links, repeatedly. Its time you got on your political critters to right this horrible wrong. Ramos & Compean must be freed & our FedGov must make their lives & the lives of their families whole once again.
If you want to continue your pro-Illegal Alien, open border argument, please pick one of the threads about Illegal Aliens & youll be obliged by all who are interested over there.
By dbm
August 6, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
To L1M89:
“man has the right to defend his property from invading hordes of Illegal Aliens.” You are confusing property with sovereignty, two entirely different concepts.
If you want to stay on topic, why did you spend so much time talking about religion?
This thread would have been more focused if the first people to post had put more emphasis on the dispute about the facts in the Ramos/Compean case and less on venting their hatred and bloodlust against people who just want to work. I realize this is not your fault.
This thread would also have been more focused if you had concentrated on what I presume is your main point and not started a debate about what label I should wear.
By L1M89
August 6, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this
[less on venting their hatred and bloodlust against people who just want to work.]
Thieves want, rapists want, terrorists want, termites & locusts want. Just because some folks or somethings want isnt reason to submit to all of their wants. Former Agents Ramos & Compean were defending us, our USA against evil & should have been rewarded & honored, not demonized & persecuted by an overzealous FedGov
As far as your bloodlust is concerned thats what our former Border Agents were attempting, to defend us against, criminal bloodlust.
Vicious MS-13 Street Gang Bringing Its Blood Lust To West Virginia Quote: BLOOMERY, W. VA [It seems an unlikely setting for a meeting of big-city gang members a secluded spot along the Shenandoah River where the loudest noises come from tires crunching gravel and water rushing over the dam.
But its here, on a narrow road just across the Virginia state line, that authorities say members of MS-13, one of the nations most violent gangs, have begun to congregate.
If you just drove through, you wouldnt notice. But we sit and watch what they do, says Jefferson County sheriffs Lt. Bobby Shirley. While women serve picnics and children play, the men are standing around, clearly doing business.
MS-13 is shorthand for Mara Salvatrucha, a Latin American gang founded in Los Angeles by refugees from El Salvador. Federal authorities consider it one of the nations most vicious street gangs and estimate that it has 10,000 members in more than 30 states.
Earlier this year, after several homicides in the suburbs of Washington, D.C., the FBI announced a crackdown. Hundreds of members have since been rounded up, and some deported. But the gang, in part to lower its profile, is spreading out.]
Link - http://www.transasianaxis.com/vb/showthread.php?t=102
By L1M89
August 6, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
Glenn Beck: The Dirt Bags finally Dead
Quote: [GLENN: A little mariachi music, please.
(Mariachi music playing).
GLENN: Oh, now I’m back in the mood. Ah. How do you say this guy’s name? Jose? Jose Ernesto. What?
STU: Medalin’, medallion.
GLENN: Jose Ernesto medalin’? I kind of like the fact that I keep getting his name wrong. Medellin? Medellin! He’s been executed. I’ll pause for a minute if you have to pull over and wipe a tear from your eye. Supreme Court of Texas turned down their last ditch appeal. And as you can tell, we’re all broken up about it here. We feel really, really super, super bad that somebody comes into our country illegally and kills a couple of American teenagers, rapes them brutally and then we put them to death. Kind of makes me want to quote Davy Crockett today, when he was standing in he was standing in congress and he was a little pissed off. He looked at all of the people in congress and he said, you know what? You can all go to hell; I’m going to Texas.
By the way, just some fun facts for you here. It’s from the LA Times. 40% of all LA County workers, 40%. Remember Los Angeles County has 10.2 million people. 40% of all the workers in LA County are working for cash and not paying taxes. Sounds to me like somebody’s not paying their fair share. How do you, how do you hold LA County together when 40% of the people are not paying taxes? Oh, that’s right, you don’t. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. 75% of the people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens. Over two thirds of all births in Los Angeles county are to illegal alien Mexicans. Do we have any sad what was that sad mariachi music? Yeah, it’s from the LA Times. Stu’s just asking me, do you have the yeah, LA Times.
(Slow mariachi music playing).
GLENN: See, this is kind of like, oh. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.]
The FBI reports that half of all gang members and if you are in Philadelphia, sorry to confuse you, that’s the same as a loose group. Half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal. Let me say that one again. Your federal dollars at work. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal. 21 radio stations in Los Angeles are now all Spanish speaking. In LA County, 5.1 million people speak English. Listen to this. LA County, 5.1 million speak English. 3.9 speak Spanish. Wait a minute. There’s 10.2 million people in the county. Hmmm. I wonder what the rest of them speak. I’m sure that no one of this is anything to worry about. I’m sure because you know what happens? Can you imagine all the, you know, illegal aliens come here and, you know, they just whatever. Life is going to be living at a Chi Chi’s. No, it will be. We’ll have great food. Nobody will be able to understand what you’re asking for, and you’ll hear this music all the time. Yi yi yi. I mean, who doesn’t want that. Can anybody tell I’m in a mood today? 888 727 BECK, it’s 888 727 BECK. (Break)
GLENN: Otherwise known as El Diablo. A little mariachi music. We executed a dirtbag in Texas last night. Normally I’m not real happy about executions. This one, I don’t know. I really tried to get CNN to hire a mariachi band for tonight’s broadcast. For some reason they won’t open up the purse strings. Stu, could you do me a favor? Can you find out how much a mariachi band there’s got to be a ton of them here in New York. Somebody’s going to want exposure or something. How much a mariachi band cost, I just might hire one just accidentally kind of, whoops, walks into the studio in the middle of the show.
more - http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/13520/
Amazing Audience
Unbelievable news on the Compean & Ramos front — after just one on air mention, this amazing audience (along with Pat Gray and Ed Hendee’s in Houston) raised $132,000 in just 3 days for the two families. While their husbands are in jail, Patty Compean and Monica Ramos can at least know they have one less thing to worry about.
more - http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/13520/ ]
As you all can see, not everybody is sullen & morose over the execution of a lowlife rapist & just the kind of scum that our former Border Agents were attempting to keep out of our Sovereign USA. Free former agents Ramos & Compean.
By Larry
August 6, 2008 5:17 PM | Link to this
I always felt these two never deserved prison time for doing their job. But I would have fired them for several policy violations. Jail for them is an injustice.
By L1M89
August 6, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
Quote:
[I would have fired them for several policy violations. Jail for them is an injustice.]
We’re in agreement about the “injustice” I disagree with you about firing the former agents. However I am interested in what you saw in the case that required their dismissal.
The fact that they didnt report the shooting is often cited by U.S. Attorney, Johnny Sutton and repeated often in the press. However, filing a written report is NOT required, and there were 15 agents, including three supervisors on the scene by the end of the incident. It was well known to their supervisors. The disposing of the shell casings was a departmental problemNOT a crime. A suspension or even dismissal from their positions should have been the harshest punishment they faced; not 11 & 12 YEARS in Federal Prison. No one even KNEW that the illegal alien smuggler had been hit by their fire.
Its my thoughts that the lowlife was shot in his butt by his crime bosses for losing the drug load & then later his wound was turned against the former agents.
By dbm
August 6, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this
We should go after the real criminals, not persecute the workers.
If the workers weren’t forced into a low profile by our misguided immigration restrictions, it would be easier to find the criminals.
By L1M89
August 6, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this
Do something to free former Border Agents Ramos & Compean, be an American Patriot & don’t bore us with your continual off topic anti-American propaganda. Ramos & Compean were sent to prison defending our USA’s sovereignty, help them, do something for former agents Ramos, Compean & their families.
By dbm
August 7, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
You are out of line calling me anti-American.
We are disagreeing about what is the best way to be Americans, not about whether to be for or against America.
How would you like it if someone called you anti-Mexican, or anti-free-market, or anti-immigrant, or anti-reason?
By L1M89
August 8, 2008 12:57 AM | Link to this
This thread is all about former Border Agents Ramos & Compean being persecuted by a lying & over reaching prosecutor & misguided FedGov, it’s not all about you & your seemingly fragile ego.
Getting back on topic, the question is what have you done & what are you doing to help the former Border Agents & their devastated families?
By The Taxman cometh
August 14, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this
Bull Turds Sutton. I read where you hid evidence about the scumbag smuggler from the jury.
And what about the smuggler in the first place? The border patrol agents would not have shot him in the first place if he wasn’t smuggling drugs.
By L1M89
August 14, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this
They only allegedly shot the fleeing felon who was suspected of being armed & in my world only paper targets stay up after being hit. The alleged incident took place in a border region where our Border Agents are being murdered & assaulted on a regular basis, as if they’re in a combat zone. Sudenly shooting fleeing felonious criminals suspected of being armed has been turned into a crime by our warm n’ fuzzy anti-American open border “PC” moonbats & there is the crime.
By L1M89
August 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
If the lowlife drug-smuggling Illegal Alien was shot in his butt & able to continue with his flight from justice why wasn’t there any signs of blood, blood splatter or bloody stool to be seen? With all of the supervisors & investigators at the scene of the alleged crime, shortly after the incident, there has never been a mention of a blood trail or signs of blood & tissue loss.
Any live being that continues to run after being shot will always leave a trail of blood to track. How come this time there’s no signs or indication of the lowlife being shot. Only latter does he pop up with his wound claiming an injustice had been perpetrated.
By TEX7708
August 28, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this
yall are clowns if ya think a “mexican-american” wearing a border patrol uniform is patriotic. ice and the border patrol are filled with “mexican-american” agents, not but a generation or two removed from being illegal themselves. these guys are the anchor babies of their parents generation, then they take a job to go round up other men n women who had the same dreams n goals thier parents did..boy thats honor…then, these punks shoot at a man who posed no physical threat to them, and you clowns wanna pardon these guys???? so the drug smuggler, posed no threat and tried to flee, these rambo agents shoot with no provocation, and the smuggler is a thug???…i personally dont care if mexicans come here legally or not — if they work hard, learn to speak our language, follow our laws, and dont steal from me, i welcome them..if they come to have babies they cant pay for, shove their crappy culture down my throat, leach off public assistance, and never care enough to learn english, GO HOME…..
coming back into eagle pass texas 2 weeks ago, id forgotten my birth certificate…i look like richie cunningham from Happy Days,very very white, blond hair, blue eyes and balding. 2 “”mexican-american”” agents checking ID’s at the border detained me, hassling me about not having my birth certificate {{obviously my texas issued drivers license and well worn social security card dont prove im an american. funny, everyone in mexico recognizes me as a gringo from blocks away}}}..anyways, these 2 agents, when speaking to each other about me, SPOKE IN SPANISH!!!!!!!!!!….if america’s to the point where two spanish speaking bozo’s hassle me upon my reentry to the state of my birth, I WANT NO PART OF IT
By L1M89
August 30, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this
Do your keepers realize youve slipped out of your restraints again TEX7708. Your racist prattle is extremely insulting to patriotic American Citizens while you also demeaned Illegal Aliens & thats quite an ignoble feat.
Such petulant rhetoric would be warmly welcomed over at the Daily Kos, Huffington Post, or perhaps even La Raza. Playing games should be left for your therapy sessions, here please bring a little reason & logic if you truly care about improving life in our USA.
By tex7708
August 30, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
youre a joke dude, shooting at a man RUNNING away from you is wrong. shooting for any other reason than pure self defense is NEVER
By tex7708
August 30, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this
youre a joke dude, shooting at a man RUNNING AWAY from you is NEVER justifiable… if youre not in lifethreatening danger, you have no right to shoot at anyone. so a guy carried a sack of weed into the USA..big deal. ….there is no border warzone like youre trying to say. i am true texan. born n raised. come down to texas, come to the border and see for yourself. sure, situations come up but there is no warzone. i cross the border every month. i know theres good n bad in every race. there is a difference between a good Mexican man and a w*****k. thats life..the good mexican man is welcome by me whether he has his paperwork or not. i value my friendships with many good mexican men n women who share my same views… youre a joke.
By Paul
August 31, 2008 1:17 AM | Link to this
Hey tex7708. They have a country. Where do you get off thinking this is supposed to be their wide open colony?
By L1M89
September 1, 2008 2:39 AM | Link to this
There are many articles that tell a quite different story from your unsubstantiated propaganda, tex7708 & here are just two.
Drug ‘War Zone’ Rattles U.S.-Mexico Border Drug Groups Are Said to Be Fighting for Primacy at Laredo and Nuevo Laredo
Quote:
[A few weeks ago, five men were shot to death in a car repair shop in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. In any other city, it might be called a massacre. In Nuevo Laredo, it’s called business as usual. Across the river in Laredo, Texas, the sheriff called it something else. “It’s a war zone,” said Webb County Sheriff Rick Flores. “We’ve got level three body armor. They’ve got level four. We’ve got cell phones. They’ve got satellite cell phones that we can’t tap into. “We’re being outgunned,” Flores added. “And that’s the reason why we’re concerned on this side.” The border cities of Laredo and Nuevo Laredo share four bridges across the Rio Grande, thousands of extended families and, now, the suffering caused by drug violence that, at least on the Mexico side, is out of control. Last year in Nuevo Laredo, a city of about 500,000, the same size as Tucson, Ariz., more than 170 people were killed. Only a handful of those killings led to any arrests. Among those slain were a city councilman, 13 police officers and the city’s police chief, who had been in office seven hours when he was shot more than 50 times. Now truckloads of federal police, similar to the U.S. National Guard, have been shipped in from across Mexico to restore some semblance of order. Last June most of the local police force was fired for being in the pockets of the drug cartels.]
more - http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/International/story?id=1477964
Border-area war zone ’Illegals’ details incidents of Mexican bullets targeting Americans
Quote:
[On Sept. 13, 2002, FBI agents Sergio Barrio, 39, and Samantha Mikeska, 38, were aboard a freight train traversing the rolling hills of Mount Cristo Rey near the U.S.-Mexico border in Texas. They were riding the rail for much the same reason agents from Wells Fargo, Pinkerton’s, and other frontier-era security companies in the Old West rode rails - to thwart a rash of train robberies that had been taking place on that line for months. According to federal officials, robbers in these remote areas of the U.S.-Mexico border operate by waiting for American freight trains to slow, perhaps from a steep incline, in a desolate area of track - areas which are still inside the United States but just yards from Mexico and escape. As the slow-moving cars creep around corners and bends in the track, robbers jump aboard unseen, then open the rail cars and begin to toss out their contents. Sometimes, says the FBI, the robbers would actually unhitch entire rail cars - usually those located at the end of long, winding trains - so they can take their time removing the stolen goods later. But on this particular day, Agents Barrio and Mikeska, who were accompanied by a third agent located in another part of the train, were hiding in one car when they noticed a suspected train robber on the roof. The two agents alerted the third agent, who then sneaked into position and managed to pull the suspect from the roof. But, according to reports, by the time he had restrained the rooftop suspect, he noticed that Barrio and Mikeska were off the train and on the ground, staggering back onto U.S. soil with other suspects in pursuit. Agents Barrio and Mikeska, the third agent soon discovered, had been beaten nearly to death by several other suspected train robbers - suspects who had boarded the train undetected by the American agents. Barrio and Mikeska were kicked and beaten and struck with large rocks, FBI officials said, noting that Barrio had suffered a severe injury over his right eye and had to undergo surgery to relieve pressure on his brain. Mikeska, meanwhile, also suffered from brain swelling and had to have surgery. Both would live, but neither would be the same. The suspects? They were Mexican nationals, and they had been routinely crossing into the U.S. just to rob the slow-moving trains. What had been a relatively victimless crime - border hopping - had now turned violent, but it was an incident border policy experts and others concerned about reforming immigration issues had seen coming.] more - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37794
Hey tex7708, are you a paid spokesmouth for unscrupulous employers who benefit from the use of Illegal Aliens as economic slaves, or drug traffickers that prosper from the use of Illegal Aliens as mules?
By L1M89
September 1, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this
Hey tex7708, as for shooting an “unarmed” man in the back; the only one who says he was unarmed was the drug dealer (Aldrete-Davila) himself, and the prosecutors who gave him immunity to testify. Ramos and Compean maintain to this day, that they saw something shiny in his hand as he turned and pointed toward them. Do you believe a drug cartel mule, who’d been smuggling drugs since he was 14, or two men who’d devoted their lives to protecting their country?
The drug mule Davila was most likely shot in his but by his boss, as a lesson for loosing his lode of dope. Any live being that continues to run after being shot will always leave a trail of blood to track. How come this time theres no signs or indication of the lowlife being shot. Only latter does he pop up with his wound claiming an injustice had been perpetrated.
As far as you ignorant assertion of “a guy carried a sack of weed into the USA..big deal,” inside this van of the drug mule Davila was a million dollars worth of marijuana, about 750 pounds. That’s a big deal.
Smuggling anything into our USA is a big deal, breaking the law is a big deal, violating the sovereignty of our USA is a big deal, being an unpatriotic moonbat who advocates the use of Illegal Aliens as economic slaves is a big deal, get over it.
By Helga
September 1, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
Я тоже иногда такое замечал, но как-то раньше не придавала этому никакого значения.
By L1M89
September 1, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Helga, are you purposely showing intelligent American Citizens just how pathetic moonbats are whenever a debate turns against them, or have you just lost all control of yourself? Is this the start of another futile gesture meant to overload the blog with mindless, senseless spam?
By tex7708
September 1, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this
you moron…750 pounds of mexican weeed is FAR from a million dollars. ounces sell for $50, you do the math ya newspaper reading genius. you can go find anyone to say anything. your reports arent worth anything. theres a “warzone” in the ghetto of your very own city dude, wake up. some ofthe very best people in the world are illegal. some of the worst people in the world are born right here in the US. being legal or not doesnt make u good or bad or wrong or right. just because a man wears a badge doesnt make him righteous. just cause a man transports a commodity doesnt void him of honor. i do advocate letting a good man work for an honest living. i dont support “legal” immigrants that come here and drain the public assistance rolls, have kids they cant pay for, and never speak english. you go on in your fairytale world bro. because of morons like you, this country is going to pot, and fast
you are guaranteed no standard of living, no abundance of food or material possessions nor is healthcare a “right” in this country. you do have the opportunity to make the most of yourself, and capitalize on the chances this country affords you. but food, healthcare, and equal pay are not human rights. they are had by those work, and live the american dream. not someone sittin around, waitin for uncle sam to take care of them. i bet you get the lone star card ha?
By L1M89
September 2, 2008 12:48 AM | Link to this
Your unsubstantiated rantings prove the level of your IQ, tex7708, not your silly baseless assertions. Your latest arguments have broken new ground for demented logic. Illegal Aliens are criminals & criminal behavior is bad for our USA. Sniveling over the reported value of a ton of dope is nuts, $500K or $1mill its still criminal activity that you laughed off as no big deal.
Criminal activity will lead to anarchy, chaos & bedlam if left unchecked & thats just what former Border Agents Ramos & Compean were attempting to defend against us when they stopped that low-life criminal drug mule. You insanely contend that Davilas criminal activity was no big deal & thats nuts, it was a big deal. It was a very big deal & an insult to all patriotic, law-abiding citizens of our USA.
Moonbat Quote-1: [some ofthe very best people in the world are illegal] Would you care to share with us some examples of your best people who just happen to be Illegals?
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.
Main Entry: illegal Pronunciation: (?)i(l)-‘le-g?l\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal Date: 1538
:not according to or authorized by law :unlawful, illicit; also :not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game) Il-le-gal-i-ty \ noun Il-legal-ly \ adverb link - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal Study the word illegal, tex7708. Learn the meaning of illegal, tex7708. Learn your obligations for being a good American Citizen, tex7708. Learn that being Illegal is in opposition to being a good Citizen of our USA. You cant be a good citizen of our USA while being involved in illegal activities. Aiding criminals who are involved in illegal activities is an illegal act.
Moonbat Quote-2 [just cause a man transports a commodity doesnt void him of honor] If your commodity is illegal then your transporter is a criminal devoid of honor.
Mexican/American Border - war zone Quote: [To send a chilling message to their underworld rivals, Mexican drug cartels are adopting a method of intimidation made notorious by Middle Eastern terror groups.
Already this year, at least 26 people have been decapitated in Mexico, with heads stuck on fences, dumped in trash piles and - most recently - tossed onto a nightclub dance floor.
Although beheading goes back centuries as a form of execution, it has become the latest tactical escalation of an ongoing turf war that gets nastier all the time, with hit men looking for new ways to instill fear.
Before, they tortured the hell out of people, but they didn’t throw their heads out in public, said James Kuykendall, a retired U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration agent. Whatever they did, they did not do this - they did not impale them on the side of the road.]
more - http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/C60D53E7-EDD6-4C26-B97E-9189247A1F99/
By Nino Loco
September 2, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this
This case is an FINE CASE of how the “status que” wants to make it CLEAR: The SHADOW Economy between MEXICO and USA will ALWAYS continue and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a FOOL!!!